Birth time rectification based on KP system

This discussion was help of yahoo group platform long time back, i am putting here for others astrologers.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/29349

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Nov 7, 2009

In k_p_system@yahoogro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:

Dear Yogesh Lajmi,

There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first.

RULE:1
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As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,

Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord

Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds)

For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed).

Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's  book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)  about this RULE alone.

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RULE:2

 ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= =====

Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one  escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on...

 ============ end of part message ============ ========= =========
Reply:
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This  may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it.

Other RULES
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No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.

As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your  firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.

There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review.  comments.
GOOD LUCK!

D.Senthil

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From: vijay.goel goyalvj@...
 Subject: [k_p_system] Re: BTR Theory
To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM

Dear Senthil ji,

I am adding few more verification given by Sri Lajmiji previously :

Rule 3:
If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method)....
Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."

Rule 4 :

There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB...
The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp...
Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul
Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth
Ven - is chief significator of Kama
Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail ,if I am not satisfied completely ,I use this method finally...

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 Thankyou,

 Best Wishes,
 Vijay Goel
 Jaipur.

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In k_p_system@yahoogroups.com, Yogesh Lajmi wrote:

Dear Senthil,
The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...
As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...
BTR is as simple as that...
Yogesh Lajmi.

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Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:31 am

Respected members,

On BTR method:

Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9).

I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.

Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???

Just a curiocity !

Thankyou,
Best Wishes,
Vijay Goel
Jaipur

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Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:33 pm

Dear Vijay,

                It is safer,and better to take the mother...because only the mother knows who the real father is... !

                With best wishes,

                Yogesh Lajmi

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Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:24 pm

Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,

Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s. Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :

In his own words:

 "If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the method is   the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the Moon Sign directly or   in one way or the other.  To tell the very Birth Star will be more correct."

a)    The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.

[Say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.
 I) 'X' could be moon's star.
This Yogesh Lajmiji is using successfully in his long experience]

b)    The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.  

[If we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',
II) 'Y' could be moon's star
III) Y's  sub could be moon's star (Take this planet as 'Z' )]

c)    The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will be the Birth Star.
       i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then SubSub(Anthara)-and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).
      This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.
  
[ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub (SS) is not taken here.]

d)    The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a Star–Sub–SubSub–SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which should tell the Birth Star.

[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's star.]


A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana), Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such circumstances, you cannot stick to      one method of thinking alone.

As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to Sookshama level at times."

Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and probabilites ratio will increase.

Thankyou,
Regards,
Vijay Goel
Jaipur.

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Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:43 am

Dear Friends,

Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr. Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.

I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the conditions (a to d)?

Thanks & Regards,

Punit Pandey

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Dear Punitji,

//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//

Nice to see the use of word Holistically :) .

*****

Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,

I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself,  its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?
II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?

I am expecting  some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.

Thanking you,
Regards,
Vijay Goel
Jaipur.

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Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:53 am

Dear Goelji,

Out of a,b,c,and d; how many should be positive, any one or more than one or all? Should we consider Moon Star or Moon Sign or both? Kindly clerify.

Dr. Rath

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Thankyou 

Best Wishes,

Vijay Goel

Vedic Astrologer and Vastu Consultant,

facebook\goelvj

www.IndianAstrovedic.com

Cell : +91 92145 02239

Shara : A nabhash yoga explained with example

Sara Yoga (arrow) :Naabhasa yoga - 7 planets in 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th houses. Results : throughout life Makes arrows, hunts, tortures, heads prisons.         
*****
Harinder Singh :
As an example of Kaal sarpa Yoga, I am giving birth details of a native. The native is a male born on December 11, 1923 at approximately 21:30 in Quetta, now in Pakistan. He has had an excellent academic record and topped his university in BSc. Medical & BSc Agriculture as well as in MSc. He was a very good athelete too.Then there was a break in further studies due to family compulsions & need to earn. He gets married in 1955. Has a daughter & a son. His major problem was income. He never succeeded at earning money, even though he was highly qualified. He became a teacher in science & later agriculture.Even though, he was a government employee, due to natural causes, his salary would get delayed. Whenever, he got opportunities to get good earning jobs, he would change to new jobs which actually paid less. His family suffered. His marriage was full of arguments & his wife was forced to also contribute, even though she was only 8th class pass. He is short tempered. Has had diabetes & hernia as major afflictions. He got an opportunity to go for further education & finished his Phd in US in 1973 in his 50th year, again with excellent performance. He was offered the job at the university by his teacher. He again refused & came back to a low-paying job. At the end of his working career, he did not have enough to build a place for himself & his family despite being highly qualified. Can we say, this person suffered from Kaala Sarp Yoga & that is the only reason he failed in life? I welcome comments from members here. Happy learning!

Veejay Goel Shara(arrow) Yoga: If all or majority of the yoga occupy from 4th to 7 th houses, Shara yoga is formed. The 4th house represent home & happiness, the 5th intellect, investment & amusement, the 6 th crime, conflict & competition, and the 7th sensual pleasure. The four houses fall in invisible
half of the horoscope. The native tends to earn money at a greater distance away from home. Greater adventure, competition, risk & courage to overcome enemies/ difficult situations are there as 6 th house is involved. There is greater emphasis on sensual enjoyment & material comforts due to the 7th house. So they can not confer very good results.

• 

  Harinder Singh Veejay Goel Ji, The shara yoga you have mentioned is one of the Nabhasa yogas. As mentioned in BPHS, "will earn money through hunting animals". This part is true. The native was an entomologist by profession (study of insects) & during one of his assignments was successful in eradicating rats which were destroying crops throughout an agriculture belt in India. He is non-vegitarian as mentioned in the yoga. He made many deadly chemical pesticides to eliminate pests. In a modern context, "the maker of arrows" meaning has changed. He also used to go out on hunting animals when it was legal. Thus, he fulfills many conditions of this yoga. The other comments made by you, regarding his earning money from a foreign land would have come true if he had taken the opportunity to work abroad. Yes, as you have rightly said, there is greater emphasis on material pleasure & sensual comforts, but he faced frustration in fulfilling these comforts. Enmity, competition were there. He has courage too, but this courage is not universal, but more self-centered & limited to a small circle of his family. Thank you for your insightful contribution...Regards

   

 

• Veejay Goel Harinder Singh Ji, Thanks for making further clarification. This chart is example chart for 'Shara Yoga'. This types of example makes us to learn the practicals application of these yogas.
  But still i am not able to list out any authentic explanation for not accumulating wealth. Here still confusion persist in my mind as there is no Daridra Yoga in his chart.

  Veejay Goel Jup+Sun in Trines, Strong Moon.. etc is good.. Sat+mar does not makes very powerful daridra yoga.
  This simply means that her wife chart must have Daridra yoga in her chart.

  
  

  • 

    Harinder Singh Veejay GoelJi, Wife's horoscope: Taurus Lagna; Jupiter & Moon in Lagna, Ketu in the 6th house, Saturn in the 8th house, Mars in the 9th house, Sun, Mercury, Venus in the 10th house, Rahu in the 12th. Date of birth is 7th March, 1930 at approximately 11:45 at Ambala. The time of birth is an approximation based on general events. Both her brothers helped her a lot throughout her life & she has a good relationship with her brothers. Father was very dominating. Mother passed away when she was 20 or 21. Her elder sisters also died around the age of 32. She also has a younger sister. The rest of the analysis can be done by learned members here.

    

    
    

    • 

      Veejay Goel Exalted Mars aspected by Jupiter in trines generally indicate help from brothers as well as good relations with them.
      This chart has more strong Daridra yoga than her husband.
      1) Jupiter + Moon in lagna in Vrishav rasi
      2) Rahu in 12H and Mars exalted in 9H.
      3) 9L Saturn in 8H with malefic aspect of Rahu.
    • 4) Dasa sequence is not Dhan yog favorable - Moon-Mars-Rahu-Jup.
      
      Why husband got this wife in-spite of better Dhan Yoga in his own chart ? Answer is just see Venus is debilitated in Navamsha indicate loss of prosperity after marriage.
      
      Thank you Harinder Singh Ji for producing this nice examples. This helps us to learn and understand microscopically.

  
  

  

  Harinder Singh Veejay Goel Ji, Thank you for your analysis & valuable comments.

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  Thankyou 

  Best Wishes,

  Vijay Goel

  Vedic Astrologer and Vastu Consultant,

  facebook\goelvj

  www.vijaygoel.net
  

  Cell : +91 800 300 4666